I was a Christian for many years...one of those totally sold out, radical, freaks for Jesus kind of Christians. And yet, I've noticed lately that I have a very difficult time relating to many Christians.
I've recently had a couple of discussions with some Christians I don't know directly, and in both conversations, the only evidence they provided to support their argument was what the Bible said.
It wasn't even so much that they were using the Bible in their defense. It was that it was the only thing they were using in their defense. And not only that, but that they believed that was sufficient. In one conversation, I was questioning a specific moral value that many Christians hold that I believe is immoral. I brought up many good points and asked several questions, evaluating that particular moral value. They did not feel the need to even address my points or answer my questions at all. The Bible said A was wrong, thus, A was wrong...period.
It seems that there is a mentality that God, in whatever way a Christian sees him, is above our evaluation. That what he says goes, no questions asked. And even if what he says seems bad, it still means he is good and perfect.
One guy kept repeatedly referring to everyone that does not believe in the Bible as atheists. He finally answered my point that there are other options besides Christianity and atheism. He said that to him, there was not. There was "for Christ" and "against Christ." And any religion or idealism that was "against Christ," was exactly the same.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around this. And yet, I know I once believed the same way. I can't imagine just believing everything a book says without evaluating it first to see if it even sits right with my own moral values. I can't imagine considering a moral issue without stopping to think about it thoroughly from many different angles before making a decision about it. I am seeing that for years, I was denying myself access to my own internal moral compass...which, by the way, seems far more advanced than that of the primitive people that wrote the Bible. I am so glad I have learned to have some faith in myself and my ability to be a good person.
I have been considering through this...I believe I am a more moral person since I left Christianity. People have questioned if people can be good without God or have claimed that religion pushes people to be more moral. I have found that for me, it made me less moral. It lead me to do, say, and believe some things that I now believe are not only not right, but actually outright morally wrong. This makes me wonder if religion does benefit people, morally speaking.
Because if morals come from religion, how did the morals get instituted into religion in the first place? At some point, someone had to start the religion...what source was there besides their own moral understanding to infuse the religion with? And does it really benefit people to just accept the moral understanding of that person and to refuse to question any of it? What if that person's moral understanding is incorrect on some issues? How would we ever improve if we lock ourselves into one kind of understanding and refuse to consider other possibilities?
Perhaps religion does not make people more moral. Perhaps it actually holds a society back from moral progression.
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First, let me introduce myself. My name is Jean Paul, I've been an atheist since I was a 5-6 year-old (but back then I didn't know there was a name for someone who didn't believe in god). My parents were religious, but not fundamentalists. They tried to make me believe in god, make me pray and everything, but I always thought that there was something very wrong about it.
ReplyDeleteI just came across your post on Richard Dawkins's website. I was reading posts from people that were able to leave their religion. I felt compelled to check your blog.
I think that religious people (not only Christians) don't see morality as what it really is. I believe they simply use the term to try to make people feel guilt. Their morality is only as good as their bible. And their bible has no good morality.
Sorry for my english, I'm Brasilian and I'm not fluent.
You disapprove of using the bible as a moral standard. Is your alternative that one should one's own feelings as their moral standard?
ReplyDeleteLet me restate that.
ReplyDeleteIs your alternative that one should consider their own feelings to be their moral standard?
I agree, anonymous...many religious people use their moral standards to view people as below them, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteLaughing Boy...
Through feelings? Not really. Through thinking? Yes.
Though our feelings could be used to a degree...most of us have instincts that make us "feel" bad if we steal, etc. Most humans are traumatized if they kill someone...even if it is not murder (like in self defense, accidentally hitting someone with a car, war, etc.).
A combination of thinking through a moral issue and our own instincts can be a good guide...and by being open to changing our views, if we do make a mistake, there is a much higher chance of the mistake being corrected than if we just declare what is right and wrong and never re-visit the issue again.
I don’t believe that making decisions about morality is beyond a human’s capacity and I do not believe we require a supreme being to inform us of what is moral and immoral.
I don’t believe that making decisions about morality is beyond a human’s capacity
ReplyDeleteNor do I, but I have 2 questions.
1. Instinct? You mean it's been developed through evolution? Christians think it's instinctive due to our having been created by a moral being, God.
2. How does one "think through" moral issues? What is the basis upon which correct and incorrect decisions can be decided?
1. There is a massive amount of evidence for evolution. There is little to none for the Christian view that is not entirely subjective. Thus, I go with the evolutionary view. When we look at other social species in the animal kingdom, we see that these species also have a "code" most of the members follow.
ReplyDelete2. The basis is quite simple. First, we can go with our gut instinct in many cases. If someone asks if it's ok to kill 5-year-old children for fun, we don't have to really think through that too much...our instincts tell us that is wrong.
For matters that are more complicated, it's still pretty simple. If the amount of suffering an act causes is greater than the benefit it would cause, it shouldn't be done. If it yields more benefit than suffering, then, it is good.
It's also important to consider what kind of a society would be created by certain acts when making such decisions in determining the general suffering vs. benefit ratio.
And if you think about it, our gut instincts generally go by this rule, too. We are against people molesting children because the benefit of the pedophile is so extraordinarily small compared to the suffering..that can last through out life...that the child will suffer. But, most of us don't even have to think that far. We just know. We have an aversion to it, and those who don't, have something abnormal with their brain.
I hear what you are saying, Darshan. However, I was once one of these "believers" you speak of...and I did come to change my mind. It is not all hopeless.
ReplyDelete